(no subject)

[popkin16]

Well, I can't just let this one go.

Of course, I'm used to discussing this with people who agree with what I'm talking about, and not a McKeller shipper. This probably won't end well, because I'm not a well-written person (I'm very long winded lol) and I'm not a deep thinker. Plus my brain just keeps screaming NO NO NO NO NO NO

But by god, I am going to try. In a logical, adult manner.

Comments

[timespirt.livejournal.com]

Akk...I hate McKeller!!!!! Blah, blah hacking up hairball now!!!

[cjoelle.livejournal.com]

With the years, I've found that the best way to answer this kind of trolling questions is to not answer at all.

During the few years since the first McKeller happened, there must have been ten billion words written about why some people dislike it, while others don't care for it, while others like it. Everything's been said, at least ten times. Anybody asking the question at this hour is obviously an idiotic troll just looking to start an old argument all over again (the simple fact that the person used the word "seriously" in their question, shows that they weren't "serious" enough to research through hundred dozens of pages about that subject. They don't deserve your attention because they are an obvious fucktard). As they say; don't feed the trolls.

We all have our likes and dislikes and there is no need to justify why we do. Why do I like pink and purple? BECAUSE!

To quote Contessedebussy above : Also, seriously, why do people feel the need to mess up old shit and to troll?

[popkin16]

I don't think it's a troll, though. The person just finished SGA - she's been liveblogging it on tumblr, tagging it with Rodney McKay (which is a tag I track). She just finished the series and thought McKeller was cute - I'm guessing she took a dip into the fandom and found lots of McKeller hate, which confused her.

Of course, she could have been faking her liveblogging, IDK. You have a good point. I think this will be the last time I respond to them, at any rate. Carrying the conversation for much longer is stupid either way - she's not going to change her mind.

[popkin16]

I really don't like it either :P But I wanted to explain to this person, who appears to be new to the fandom, why I personally don't like it. And I figured I wouldn't be taken seriously if I didn't respond in a logical way :P

But yeah - McKeller, no no no.

[timespirt.livejournal.com]

Yeah, definitely not! LOL

[popkin16]

:D Not even a little.

[spikespet7.livejournal.com]

For me it was not warming up to Keller. The character just never fit for me. It was like the producers thought they could push her on us. Then they had to first do the 'Ronon' thing so they could have her choose the 'geek' over 'hunk' thing.

The writers even said they wrote it for that reason.

I just reply back to them with 'Why do you like McKeller? Because that is all that is important. Because I won't try and convince you to change your mind if you promise not to try and change mine.'


Kimber

[popkin16]

Yeah, TPTB didn't do a very good job of making her easy to relate to or likeable. She contradicts herself and we never are told why she's on Atlantis.

I'm not surprised. It sort of feels like someone - maybe all - of the writing staff/people in charge had a crush on Jewel Staite, so they used her as much as they could. Which is why she took over s5.

Hmmm - I like that. If she responds to me, that's what I'm going to say. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours, so lets agree to disagree.

[cjoelle.livejournal.com]

The question itself is trolling, no matter if the person is a regular troll or not (which I can easily believe they aren't usually, but "being a dick" on the Internet, doesn't take much more than one stupid trolling question, even unintended).

The "McKeller hate" has died a slow death for the past five years, nowadays it's pretty much nonexistent, that person had to have gone and search for crap to stir to actually find the old heated arguments. Fandom has long learned to ignore Canon to instead play with their beloved self-created Fanon.

[gillianinoz.livejournal.com]

I really wanted Rodney to be happy - so I tried to like her. But she was too young for him, and she constantly seeemed to want to change him.

And I just got the feeling he was settling for her. Fodder for a John/Rodney fan, not so much otherwise.

I really miss SGA. :-/

[tavabean.livejournal.com]

I still hate McKeller, I just don't talk about it.

[aadarshinah.livejournal.com]

do not feed the trolls, bb. It only keeps them coming back for more -and attracts all sorts of flies.

[blackchaps.livejournal.com]

I thought your explanation was very well done. It hit all the high points of why I can't ship them, not ever.

[velocitygrass.livejournal.com]

Hey, you quoted me in your response :D

The funny thing about The Shrine is that all the doubts about their relationship that are raised in that episode are only enforced in the episodes that follow:

5x17 Infection: Except for the explicit McKeller scene, Rodney ignored her. They were about to die and Rodney wasn't even looking at her. If I were about to die, I'd pull my girlfriend in my arms or hold her hand or something.

5x18 Identity: Implications that Jennifer nags about his behavior. Rodney seemingly uncaring about her potential death (which honestly would be out of character even if it were just some red shirt). Jennifer encouraging his completely not himself romance idea (which was stolen from a murderer, I might add).

5x20 EatG: The ridiculous statement at the end, which is so over the top that it only underscores that Rodney has no idea what he really feels. Especially since instead of gazing into the eyes of the person who is all he needs, he look longingly at John/his team a bit later.

It takes a lot of handwaving to see McKeller as great couple with a happy future ahead of them. Or you think that Jennifer will reform Rodney, and he'll turn into a better person out of love.

I'm kind of glad that as a McShepper I don't have to try to make McKeller work in my head. Thankfully making it not work is quite easy given canon ;)

And I really liked how you pointed out that they both deserve better. I like Jennifer. I just don't think she's the right person for Rodney or he for her.

[popkin16]

Mmm, you may be right. At any rate, she hasn't responded to my last response to her, so I think she's given up trolling. If she responds from this point on, I'm not going to do anything.

[popkin16]

I really, really don't like McKeller either - but I wanted to point out my problems with it logically, so I'd be taken seriously :P But she hasn't responded, so I think the entire debate is over...

[popkin16]

She had just finished SGA - she'd been liveblogging it on tumblr as she went. I figured she was new and wanted a genuine response to the question. Luckily it all seems to be over, since she hasn't responded to me - and even if she does, I'm going to just leave it. No feeding the trolls, and it's pointless getting into this argument with her. Neither will change our minds :P

[popkin16]

Oo, thank you! I tried my best to be concise and coherent, even though ever fiber of my being was screaming NO! I'm glad someone thought it was well done :P

[popkin16]

Your piece of meta about McKeller and McShep is my favorite. So well done, written objectively and logically.

. If I were about to die, I'd pull my girlfriend in my arms or hold her hand or something.

YES. If you're with the person you love and you're about to die, you want to spend your last moments being close with that person.

Or you think that Jennifer will reform Rodney, and he'll turn into a better person out of love.

I've got to say, I really hate this idea that Rodney has to change to have love - which is a feeling I get from McKeller.

I'm mostly ambivalent about her, to be honest. I struggle to connect with her - I don't feel emotionally affected by her. I think I'd like Jennifer a lot better if they'd done a consistent job on her character. But leaving everything wrong with her characterization & McKeller aside - she's not evil. She doesn't deserve a life of unhappiness because she's the wrong person for Rodney or any other reason.

I reblogged that McKeller shipper's post and added some more thoughts, and this bit was kind of a summation:

So, Jennifer’s attracted to Rodney. But he’s pessimistic and rude, and she’s not into that. And then one day Rodney’s sweet and kind, and she’s like, “Yes. I like this. I want to see more of it.” Only it turns out it’s not Rodney, it’s this parasite in his head. And she desperately wants to save him, because she’s seen in him all that she wants. And then he’s fixed, but he’s rude and sarcastic again, always seeing the worst case scenario. That’s not what she liked about him! Surely if he was sweet and kind before, he can be again. Well, yeah. But the first time he was sweet and kind? He was sick. Dying. He was not himself.

I love meta'ing with you.

[popkin16]

Those are exactly my problems with her, too. The relationship between them just doesn't seem healthy to me.

I think, after Jeannie's interrogation about Rodney marrying Katie, Rodney got it into his head that he should take what he could - and when Keller expressed an interest, he took it. And then to keep it, he deals with her nagging.

I miss SGA too. What I wouldn't give for a season 6 or even a movie...

[squidgiepdx]

I'm going to hope that this isn't too insensitive or anything - if so, please accept my apologies.

One of the reasons that I didn't like Keller is the same reason that I loved Teyla. Teyla is a headstrong, forceful woman to be reckoned with, and without apology, while Keller was nothing but mousy. She wasn't a strong character. I can see how the writers tried to correct that with some of the stuff they did (like her having to raise a gun to the traitor in whatever that episode was), but it was too little, too late. I was already over it.

As for Keller & McKay, even if I wasn't such a McShep person, I wouldn't be a McKeller person, because of these same reasons. Someone like McKay isn't balanced by someone like Keller, IMHO. And "You're all I ever need"? Ugh... I think this is all the explanation that I need.

[aadarshinah.livejournal.com]

::shakes head:: even on my first go around, I couldn't see McKeller as belevable, but what can you do?

you have a link to your response somewhere?

[popkin16]

They handled McKeller really, really badly - they forced it when there was no chemistry.

My conversation with the woman can be found here. Click the first green "Read More" link to read my first response.

[aadarshinah.livejournal.com]

chemistry is definately everything.

and i iike the argument you make in the link. thanks!

[popkin16]

Sorry for such a late response! I got so busy and then mcshep_match started posting...

Your post is not insensitive at all. I welcome your opinion :D

I really hate how they contradicted Keller's character so much. Was she awkward and shy, or was she the type to hang out at bars and party? I think the problem is they forced her on us too much, too. Carson wasn't in every episode and he had the same job. Even before she and Rodney hooked up she was in the show far too much. I didn't care for Keller, and having her shoved down my throat wasn't helping.

But that fic is perfect. It really touches on how OOC Rodney gets at the end, how Keller is making him into someone who isn't the weirdly endearing, sarcastic character we've come to love.

[popkin16]

I think chemistry is why John and Rodney got to be such a huge ship.

Thank you! I tried to be coherent, logical, and mature lol I wanted to be taken seriously, so she could see my point. She hasn't responded back - I like to think it's because she didn't have an response, but I'm not that good of a debater.

[aadarshinah.livejournal.com]

eeh, who knows. a forfit is still a win.

[popkin16]

That's how I choose to look at it :D